Comments on: The Church is Pagan? Please! http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/ Didn't our hearts burn within us? Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:54:09 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Matt http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21195 Matt Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:21:50 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21195 I have some comments here and some perspective on Barna/Viola. Where he is coming from is that his research has shown the lack of difference in moral character and basic beliefs between most "Christians" in America and the pagan culture surrounding them. This has led him to question the structures of the church in the west as part of the problem. So he has gravitated to a simple church or house church approach. Viola and many others have been house church practioners for years, and have put forth their experiences and understanding in a number of books about the house church paradigm as a vehicle for kingdom ministry. The reference to "pagan" has more to do with the perspective that worldly methods, practices and traditions have been adopted by the church to its spritual detriment. Things like the pastor/CEO model of church government vs. the 5-fold ministry and elders, or the "professional religious performers" up front doing ministry while the church spectates vs. the priesthood of every believer equipped by the apostles, prophets, evangeists, pastors and teachers to do ministry in the world. One comment: I've found simple church a compelling idea rich with possibility, especially when combined with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that is currently happening world wide(read the book MegaShift by James Rutz for a thrilling view on how empowered house churches are changing the face of Christianity in the 2/3 world) but Viola is too extreme and bombastic for me. He tends to come across as arrogant and act like his views are the modern equivalence of the Bible--always a temptatation for us poor sinners when we get ahold of revolutionary spritual truth. IMHO, the church in the west in general is pretty wimpy when compared to the book of Acts, so let's look at everything we can to expand the kingdom in our world. My (long) two cents... ; ) I have some comments here and some perspective on Barna/Viola.

Where he is coming from is that his research has shown the lack of difference in moral character and basic beliefs between most “Christians” in America and the pagan culture surrounding them. This has led him to question the structures of the church in the west as part of the problem. So he has gravitated to a simple church or house church approach.

Viola and many others have been house church practioners for years, and have put forth their experiences and understanding in a number of books about the house church paradigm as a vehicle for kingdom ministry.

The reference to “pagan” has more to do with the perspective that worldly methods, practices and traditions have been adopted by the church to its spritual detriment. Things like the pastor/CEO model of church government vs.
the 5-fold ministry and elders, or the “professional religious performers” up front doing ministry while the church spectates vs. the priesthood of every believer equipped by the apostles, prophets, evangeists, pastors and teachers to do ministry in the world.

One comment: I’ve found simple church a compelling idea rich with possibility, especially when combined with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that is currently happening world wide(read the book MegaShift by James Rutz for a thrilling view on how empowered house churches are changing the face of Christianity in the 2/3 world) but Viola is too extreme and bombastic for me.
He tends to come across as arrogant and act like his views are the modern equivalence of the Bible–always a temptatation for us poor sinners when we get ahold of revolutionary spritual truth.

IMHO, the church in the west in general is pretty wimpy when compared to the book of Acts, so let’s look at everything we can to expand the kingdom in our world.

My (long) two cents… ; )

]]> By: carl http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21185 carl Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:19:42 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21185 @Mark - How can you call a review of a 7 year old book "knee-jerk"? Are you saying the review that I link to is wrong? I was commenting on the review and how it agrees with those whom I have met who have read the book. @Mark – How can you call a review of a 7 year old book “knee-jerk”? Are you saying the review that I link to is wrong? I was commenting on the review and how it agrees with those whom I have met who have read the book.

]]> By: Mark Skil http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21184 Mark Skil Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:09:15 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21184 Evidently no one here has read the book before criticizing it. First, they do not say that Christians are pagan, they talk about the pagan practices that have entered 'Christianity'. Secondly, the largest portion of the book was written by Frank Viola and has been in publication for around 7 years. Barna only adds some prefaces and a few chapters at the end. This 'knee-jerk' reaction to someone writing (or doing)something against 'tradition' is the very reason this book must be written and examined. Please educate yourself in what is being said before passing judgement. Evidently no one here has read the book before criticizing it. First, they do not say that Christians are pagan, they talk about the pagan practices that have entered ‘Christianity’. Secondly, the largest portion of the book was written by Frank Viola and has been in publication for around 7 years. Barna only adds some prefaces and a few chapters at the end.
This ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to someone writing (or doing)something against ‘tradition’ is the very reason this book must be written and examined.
Please educate yourself in what is being said before passing judgement.

]]> By: CHARISMATICA » Polls: They Can Tell Us Something Sometimes http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21174 CHARISMATICA » Polls: They Can Tell Us Something Sometimes Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:02:57 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21174 [...] week I came across some of my blogging buddies making disparaging comments about polls over at the Revival Blog. I agree with with the first two [...] [...] week I came across some of my blogging buddies making disparaging comments about polls over at the Revival Blog. I agree with with the first two [...]

]]> By: CHARISMATICA » Polls: They Can Us Tell Something Sometimes http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21173 CHARISMATICA » Polls: They Can Us Tell Something Sometimes Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:02:02 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21173 [...] week I came across some of my blogging buddies making disparaging comments about polls over at the Revival Blog. I agree with with the first two [...] [...] week I came across some of my blogging buddies making disparaging comments about polls over at the Revival Blog. I agree with with the first two [...]

]]> By: Kathi Sharpe http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21160 Kathi Sharpe Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:48:43 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21160 Um. I used to be Pagan. As a whole and even in parts the church is NOT pagan. There are a few things here and there which are disturbing - Christians participating in easter bunny madness, and some of the name-it-claim-it-let's-make-God-do-it stuff (SOME of which is so very reminiscent of magick it turns my stomach), etc. I realize they're talking (or trying to) about ancient pagan practices, but still - dressing up for church is pagan? Most of the pagans I know (and know of, historically) take their clothes OFF for ritual... I've lost stomach for the rest of it. Our old pastor up in Greensboro always maintained that a "service" is not about the church serving us. It's about us serving God. It's got to be all about Him, else it's just a profound waste... Um.

I used to be Pagan. As a whole and even in parts the church is NOT pagan. There are a few things here and there which are disturbing – Christians participating in easter bunny madness, and some of the name-it-claim-it-let’s-make-God-do-it stuff (SOME of which is so very reminiscent of magick it turns my stomach), etc.

I realize they’re talking (or trying to) about ancient pagan practices, but still – dressing up for church is pagan? Most of the pagans I know (and know of, historically) take their clothes OFF for ritual…

I’ve lost stomach for the rest of it.

Our old pastor up in Greensboro always maintained that a “service” is not about the church serving us. It’s about us serving God. It’s got to be all about Him, else it’s just a profound waste…

]]> By: carl http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21159 carl Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:23:02 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21159 I agree. I don't need a guy to ask 500 people what they think. I need to sanctify myself daily so that I can hear what the Holy Ghost is saying and proclaim it without apology or hesitation. That's what the world needs. I agree. I don’t need a guy to ask 500 people what they think. I need to sanctify myself daily so that I can hear what the Holy Ghost is saying and proclaim it without apology or hesitation. That’s what the world needs.

]]> By: David Copeland http://www.revivalblog.com/the-church-is-pagan-please/comment-page-1/#comment-21158 David Copeland Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:58:43 +0000 http://www.revivalblog.com/2008/01/18/the-church-is-pagan-please/#comment-21158 The church has become a people of "poll watchers" instead of Jesus followers! When are going to get back to the Book, and quit organizing our services to appeal to people, instead of creating them to appeal to God? Set ourselves on fire for HIM and people will come watch us burn!!!! The church has become a people of “poll watchers” instead of Jesus followers!

When are going to get back to the Book, and quit organizing our services to appeal to people, instead of creating them to appeal to God?

Set ourselves on fire for HIM and people will come watch us burn!!!!

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