We had a little move of God this past summer. We had a little outreach to some urban young folks and saw lots saved, set free and baptized in the Holy Ghost.
One girl showed up and got right (I actually blogged about it here). What I found out later was that this girl had just gotten out of a correctional institution. I still don’t know what got her there but she lost a year and a half to the place. She had gotten out that week and her younger sister brought her to the meeting.
As it turns out, she had been accepted to a Christian College and had gotten a financial needs scholarship. Now she was right with God and was really excited. She was faithful to the meetings and grew in her relationship with Jesus. As the weeks passed she began to develop an unusual maturity in the Holy Ghost. We prayed for her and laid hands declaring that she would see a move of God at her new school.
The night before she was to leave she called me and asked if I would baptize her friend before they left. Her friend had gotten out of the institution the same time and was now going to go to the school with her. She had come down to make the trip with her. I had lead her to Christ a few days earlier and wanted to be baptized before she went.
I went to her house and baptized her. She came up out of the water filled with the Holy Ghost. We prophesied over her, declared things of the future, broke off things of the past and watched her glow that you see on a person with a fresh filling. I then realized that the roof was awfully close to the pool. 
Of course we spent the next half hour jumping off the roof into the pool. This may be the best benefit of working with young people.
All seemed well until I got a phone call a few days later. It seems they had run into a few problems. Without going into details, I later discovered this on the schools website under beliefs
Without meaning to be unfriendly or unkind to anyone, we feel it only fair to say that Pensacola Christian does not agree with the modern-day charismatic movement, and we believe that students who are a part of the modern-day tongues movement should seek their college education elsewhere as they would not be allowed to participate in or promote any charismatic activities.
That could be a problem! I am waaaaay beyond charismatic. And these girls got right with God under the anointing. They were believing God for a move of God in a place that did not believe that God moves anymore. As time went on people around them began to experience manifestations of the Holy Ghost. there were angelic visitations, sovereign deliverances, works of knowledge and prophesies through people who did not know that such things were possible and the leadership of the school was not liking it in the least.
Last week they were brought into the dean of students office and were given an opportunity to promise that they would not pray in tongues. If they did not promise then they would be expelled. To try to keep this story brief, these girls were expelled from the school three days later.
Those that know me know my intolerance for the biblical liberals who have disregarded whole chapters of the Bible by saying that the Holy Spirit ran out of power sometime around the 3rd century. But on another note, how cool would it be to have the testimonies that these girls will have?
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to be kicked out of school for being full of the Holy Ghost!! that’s cool!!!!!!!!!!
But PCC doesn’t believe in the Holy Ghost!
preach on ladies!!!!! you have just joined ranks with the early apostles!
God bless those two. It’s a shame to be persecuted by brothers rather than heathen, but it’s good to remain faithful even in the face of that. If folk want to be unmoveable stones, the stream of revival will go right around them.
Revival in the Schools was one of the ways God is moving
Glory!!!!
The Wall around PCC is coming Down
Get ready for a rant. I am probably off the grid on this one … and will be tarred and feathered and run out of blog land for my comments … but here goes.
There is a difference between the following:
Option 1: Believing God for a move of His Spirit in a place that has taken a doctrinal stance that they are against such a move.
Option 2: God speaking and revealing His intent to move in such a place, and then going with that revelation.
Why the rant?
Because I have seen the damage caused by the first option. Let me explain.
If the young ladies mentioned in the post were admitted to the college and received a merit scholarship, they, undoubtedly, signed various documents, one being that they agreed to adhere to the doctrinal stance of the school. If receiving a merit scholarship, it is not unreasonable to ask such of the one receiving the free money. If the girl’s doctrinal position changed as a result of their encounter with the Holy Spirit this summer, then it becomes an ethical issue – not a persecution issue. Knowing the doctrinal stance of the school, it is unethical to pursue enrollment knowing that one is going to promote an agenda (for lack of a better term) that is not in harmony with the position of the institution. The right thing to do would be to turn down the scholarship. Then … the young ladies are to be held in high honor for the sacrifice that they made in accordance with the current walk with their Lord. There is no honor if they were encouraged to proceed in accordance with Option 1 above.
If Option 1 is what we are talking about, then there has been damage – it just isn’t yet readily apparent. Here is what happened to them:
A bitter root judgment was sown. This will come to fruition later in their walk with the Lord and with their brothers and sisters in Christ. The bitter root judgment: “Brothers and sisters in Christ who are not walking in the fullness of the Spirit are inferior.”
A seed of elitism was sown: “I am better than they are.” Such opens the door for spiritual pride … and with that comes a host of potential problems.
The Body of Christ was not properly discerned. One may disavow the gifts of the Spirit, but that does mean that the one is not a brother or sister in Christ. One is on dangerous ground if one is not careful with the “weaker” brother. Those who had the gifts in Corinth were making such a mistake among themselves and as a result there were those who were sick and dying before their time. There is a difference between “Non-Christian vrs Christian” and “Christian vrs Christian.” To say that the young ladies have joined the ranks of the apostles in the “persecution” that they received in a misnomer. The apostles’ situation was: ”Non-Christian vs Christian” … the girls situation is: “Christian vs Christian.” There is a difference.
There has been a sin against love. John in his first letter speaks in terms of absolutes concerning this matter. No shades of gray. Love in terms of a brother or sister is not conditional – Apollos became a mighty agent for the Gospel because he was handled with wisdom by Priscilla and Aquilla.
Anyone who has been in the juvenile justice system is fragile. The fragility may not be apparent of the surface, but there are deficits. If Option 1 was exercised, then the maturity observed during the summer meetings will have been undermined. A sin against love happens on some level due to self preservation. The root of such is rebellion.
If Option 1 was exercised, what about the manifestations of the Spirit experienced by the students involved? There were mighty gifts manifested in the church at Corinth, yet there were significant problems. Those problems are the very ones that I mentioned above.
So is my rant.
I hope that I am wrong.
Perhaps it was Option 2. If so … may God be praised!
Please forgive me for my comments above, and I think it would be in the best interests of all to delete the post. I do ask for forgiveness. It really isn’t any of my business, and I should not have sounded off. May His grace be extended to all, and His love flow abundantly. It is a joy to see and hear that God is at work, and it is my desire to never be a hindrance to that. In the future I will read, be blessed, and be silent.
carl’s comment: I am reluctant to delete a comment that furthers a discussion without crossing my comment policy so I kept the comments but removed the names associated with them.
I am going to stir this pot but good.
Does it? Jesus said that all manner of sin would be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. In the context of the conversation, He was talking about attributing the works of God to some source other than God.
If you do not believe that the manifestations and gifts of the Spirit come from the Lord, then you have committed this sin, have you not?
The thing about some of the manifestations is that you don’t control them. If I pray for someone and the Holy Spirit decides to show up and lay them out on the floor for 3 hours, I had nothing to do with that. That was His choice, not mine. I did nothing to cause that and I could do nothing to stop it. To say you can’t pray for your friends because God chooses to do this when you do pray is something you have to take a stand against.
When she was accepted to the school, she took the scholarship in good faith. God changed her over the summer and when she went there, she was no longer that same person. They had to take the stand they took and the school decided to do what it did. It was not a bad thing, in my mind. She took a public stand that what Jesus was doing in her was more important. It was a good thing for her and the school to part ways because of their fundamental incompatibility.
To me, the sin against love was on the part of the school. This girl is a very, very new believer or a recent return to the fold. She is the one to be protected and nurtured and the school failed to do that. They believe what they believe, but is was their responsibility to handle the disagreement in a way that was not damaging to her because they are supposedly the more mature believers.
Dear Patsy,
It is obvious that you have an intense desire and love for God. I am pleased to see this. I evidently have not done a good job of communicating my heart, so I will respond to your concerns point by point.
1.You must have missed my last statement in my first comment: “Perhaps it was Option 2. If so … may God be praised!” I certainly would not offer praise to God if I did not believe that the gifts and the manifestations of the Spirit are for today. That is the theme of Carl’s post. I am filled with the Spirit and believe that His gifts and manifestations are for today. While I have my faults, I do operate in the gifts. And … while my sins have been many, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not one of them. I am sorry for whatever I said that gave you that impression.
2.You said you wanted to “stir this pot but good.” I am assuming that the strong language in part is due to my use of the word “rant” and my words about being run out of blog land. Forgive me for the use of such strong language. It was wrong for me to do that. While I am new to this (blogging) and do not completely understand the language, I did know enough that a “rant” is something that expresses strong emotion. I did experience strong emotion when I read Carl’s post.
3.I am in agreement with your comments that one cannot control the manifestations that may come once you have prayed for someone.
4. The school certainly is “sinning against love” in their doctrinal stance that the gifts are not for today. I am in agreement with that.
5.I am also in agreement with your statement that the leadership at the school is “supposedly” the more mature. The key word there is “Supposedly.” I do not believe that “maturity” is solely defined by how long one has been in the faith, but that is a topic for another day.
6.I am also in agreement that a stand needs to be taken.
7.My disagreement would be on the ground that the stand should be taken. That is what elicited the strong sense of emotion that I felt when I read the post. It is also probably what elicited your strong sense of emotion in your comments. I would ask that you take another look at what I called “Option 1” and “Option 2.” The difference is subtle, but yet profound. I stand by my comments concerning “Option 1.” And I do so in agreement with what you said: “This girl is a very, very new believer or a recent return to the fold. She is the one to be protected and nurtured …” This statement of yours is exactly what was on my mind when I made the comments that I did. I personally have seen the damage caused by Option 1.
8.I really don’t know what happened if it was Option 1 or Option 2. Since I don’t know, I asked that my original comment be removed because the affair had already happened, and I did not want to engage in debate on an unrighteous level. I enjoy debate, and in so doing it is so easy to speak from a posture of pride. And, more importantly, I don’t want to be inflammatory and cause harm to someone else’s walk in the Lord. Your response is a prime example – somehow out of my comments you thought I did not believe in the gifts or manifestations in the Spirit! That is not your fault. It is my fault.
9. I have emailed Carl and told him that I would not offer comments in the future. In retrospect, it would have been better if I had just contacted Carl directly instead of commenting on his post. But, I am writing because I wanted to speak to you directly. I believe it is the right thing to do. Not in self-defense, but to reassure you that there was no intentional assault on the gifts of the Spirit. It horrifies me that someone would think that. And I I hope this puts your heart at ease.
Reuben,
Why not comment? It’s not like you’re being belligerently insulting or stubbonly combative. What you and Carl decide is between you two, but the interaction I’ve seen just looks like iron sharpening iron.
slw,
It is an adventure to live in accordance with the will of the Father. Galatians 5:25 says: “Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit” (NIV). Such is my desire. Ephesians 5:18 states: “… be filled with the Spirit” (NIV).
What is the measure of one who is filled with the Spirit and keeping in step with the Spirit?
Is it the absence of sin? Is it flowing in the anointing? Is it eloquent speech? Is it persuasive words? It is prophetic understanding? Is it mighty demonstrations of the Spirit? Is it lying on the floor for hours “drunk” in the Spirit? Is it casting out devils? Is it miracles? Is it a series of protracted meetings where many are being healed? Is it words of knowledge? Is it revival? Is it supernatural encounters with spirit beings? Is it tongue speech? Is it visions and dreams? Is it evangelism?
All of the above are evidences of the Kingdom and should be pursued with passion by all who name themselves as Christians … but none of them is the true measure of one who is filled with the Spirit and keeping in step with the Spirit. Those who know what it means to be filled with the Spirit do not measure the quality or maturity of their walk with Christ or the quality or measure of others’ walk with Christ by such things. If they do use such as the measure, then they are children – they are immature. “When I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man I put childish ways behind me” (1 Corinthians 13:11 NIV). The childish ways that one puts behind is use of supernatural experience as a measure of one’s walk in the Spirit. One does not put aside the supernatural experience … one puts behind the use of such as a measure. That is the true mark of a man.
What, then, is the measure of one who is filled with the Spirit and keeping in step with the Spirit?
Love.
“If I have the gift of prophecy and … have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:2). It is not demonstrations of power and mighty deeds that are the measure of a man – it is love. “Brothers, stop thinking like children … follow the way of love.” Both phrases are taken from 1 Corinthians 14. Three chapters, 1 Corthinians 12, 13, and 14, are the bedrock of Paul’s teaching concerning demonstrations and gifts of the Spirit. Stuffed in the middle of his discussion is his famous discourse on love. The church at Corinth was guilty of making the mistake of measuring spiritual maturity by the amount or frequency of supernatural experience. They were “zealous” in their pursuit of supernatural experience, for which they are commended, but they made the serious mistake of equating supernatural experience with spiritual maturity. As a result, they were selfish, childish, and immature.
“Iron sharpening iron” is your observation. Perhaps. If there has been benefit, then I am glad. May all who read be blessed and encouraged in their walk with their Redeemer.
In accordance with what I said earlier, Ruben will quietly ride into the sunset with this final entry.
However, slw, I will leave you with this. Perhaps this is a prophetic word for you. At the very least, it is “iron sharpening iron.” I have noticed that you spend much time with many comments in many places. Use your time wisely and keep your focus upon that which your Master has called you to do. “Guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. No one serving as a soldier gets involved with civilian affairs – he wants to please his commanding officer. Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this. Grace be with you.”
Ruben,
You must do what you feel led to do. As far as the prophetic word to me, I’m sorry I don’t accept personal prophetic words that are not confirmed by what God has already said to me.