End Times
December 21st, 2007 by Carl Thomas.Does anyone find it significant that Jesus never quotes Daniel yet most end time doctrines rely heavily on Daniel’s writings?
Also, have you ever noticed how people will manifest if you challenge their view of the end times? I wonder if they will try to rebuke Jesus when He does not submit to their flow chart.
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>>I wonder if they will try to rebuke Jesus when He does not submit to their flow chart.
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> I wonder if they will try to rebuke Jesus when He does not submit to their flow chart.
Laughing out loud!
How true this is of a lot of theological opinions. We must all be careful to submit to the Spirit who reveals The Word Made Flesh, and not to our own academic treatments. None of us are immune I’m afraid.
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None but us of course Mark. We have blogs. lol
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ROFL
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While your view on the end times may not include a “flow chart” — and I am sure that much of end time prophecy played out will shock its observers, and yes, many end time gurus will have missed several key points — I do believe (though it is difficult to understand — as Peter said in 2 Pet. 3:16) that it is a noble endeavor to “discern the times” in which we live. Solomon tells us that it is the “glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to search out a matter.”
I reference Matthew 24:15.
Not meant to be a rebuke — but simply to say we all get it wrong from time to time — no matter what camp we come from.
Once again, as I have said before in the comments section of your blogs — I love your passion and your zeal for the Lord. May God increase the ministry He has entrusted to you.
God bless.
God bless.
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@Shane - Your last point is my point completely. I believe it is right and proper to search the Scriptures regarding the age we are in and the age to come.
And hear me, I am not advancing an end time theology here. But a concept.
Does anyone find it interesting that the majority of spirit-filled American believers have the exact same end time theology as cessationists? We have the exact same theology regarding the fulfillment of future prophesies with people who cannot discern the times we are in right now.
We have the same opinion of what we the church are going to play in future events as people who do not believe that we have been filled with power to destroy the works of the enemy.
How is this possible?
Again, I am not advancing a particular position. But it is worth noting that the people who had the Torah memorized could not recognize the Word become flesh. An ounce of humility would go a long way regarding the â”glory of God to conceal a matter.â”
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Carl,
My main point in my comment above is that Jesus did indeed quote Daniel (Matthew 24:15). To base your position on the statement that He never did would be a wrong premise by which to stand. Not only that, the same argument is used to support the homesexual agenda — in that He never spoke against it. (Although He does reference the sin of Sodom and Gommorah in Luke 17:29).
I might add that cessasionist believe in a great many things that we believe — and of the End Times theology they are often times just as weak in their sincere belief of it as they are, say — in healing.
As a matter of fact, my undertanding of church history is that the whole teaching of the Rapture disappeared about the time cessasionism was dreamed up (in the mind of St. Augustine — who later recanted his position). And then, that the teaching of the Rapture re-emerged about the same time as that of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit — they co-existed in other words.
I suppose none of these discussed points would allow for a “for” or “against” verdict. The real question is — is it Scriptural?
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@ Shane (The fine Berean) - You are correct, stating that He never quoted Daniel is false. I believe much of the popular end times views center on Daniel at the expense of the words of Jesus.
As far as cessationists I agree. We agree on 95% of theology. But that difference centers around what God has empowered, called, and expects us to do. Is Jesus going to rescue a people hanging onto the end of the rope or is He going to return to triumphant overcomers? I have heard convincing arguments both ways. But if we are going to have a pentecostal systematic theology how can a major part be identical to people who have a completely different view of what we are supposed to be doing here?
My main point is that most folks care more about doctrinal statements than, as you put it, “is it Scriptural?” I listen to John Piper for that very reason.
BTW - it was always my understanding that rapture theology did not become widely taught until the early 1800s, though that was not the point of my post.
I just think most are going to be surprised when and how Jesus returns.
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Just curious what part of Daniel shouldn’t be focused on?
As far as ‘when’ the rapture is, Paul says it’s after the 7 seals and 7 trumpets, but before the bowls (1 cor 15:51), unless you believe the ’secret’ rapture theory which allows for 2 raptures, haha. My whole thing is that there are 80+ chapters of gospel and 100+ of end-times… it’s just too much work to church the end times ones out of my bible.
But I believe the Lord would say that it’s not about flow charts but about a church being able to communicate ‘why’ God is allowing this to a people whose love will grow cold in offense at God, (something not done well at 9-11), so that the harvest of the end of the age would be brought in..(Mat:13:39)
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I am really surprised that this is the post that brought all the comments.
While I don’t believe in any secret raptures, I really don’t want to turn this into an end times discussion and regret getting into specific verses.
I will say that I believe the focus has to shift from, “What is Jesus going to do?” to “What am I supposed to be doing?” I believe that these are connected. I think what we are supposed to be doing will lead to what Jesus is going to do (not saying we will cause what He will do).
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