Archive for the 'The Goofy Church' Category

Hank Hanegraaff : Spokesman for the Devil

There is another move of God afoot so that is sure to bring out all the people who hate God. Sure enough, Hank Hanegraaff has checked in on the Lakeland Revival. Hank Hannegraaff sees that people are having their faith restored in God, are getting saved, and healed and here is how he views the events,

“We’re in desperate times, and we’ve got desperate people. And they’re looking for a quick fix,” Hanegraaff said in an interview from Charlotte, N.C. “But all they’re getting is false hope.”

There you have it folks. Hank has played his final hand. Faith in Jesus is a false hope. There is no salvation. Jesus never heals. God does not deliver. To believe in the God of the bible is to put your trust in fables.

Jesus warns the church repeatedly to beware of false teachers. In fact, we know that the anti-christ will try to divert attention from Jesus to himself. Surely this is the foundation for the end time deception. If the devil can convince enough people that sickness is from God and healings are from him then he can set the world up for the anti-christ.

edit: I have made corrections based on the response by Michael.

Popularity: 20% [?]

The Church is Pagan? Please!

Bob Hyatt has taken on George Barna’s book titled Pagan Christianity. I heard George speak at a minister’s conference last year. According to his research nobody in the room was saved (except for him).

He went on and on about how people were becoming disconnected with Christianity except for a little subset of Christians called Pentecostals.

I never read this book. I have run into enough people who agree with it to know that it is not of interest to me. That’s why I am glad someone like Bob has taken him to task chapter by chapter.  The series is worth reading just for the laughs you get out of finding the nonsense that people get paid to write in books.

You know those churches that God inhabits when people gather to worship Him? You know, the ones that He saves people in, touches their hearts causing them to fall in love with Him and give their lives to His cause? Apparently God hates those places according to Barna.

Maybe one day Barna can bend a knee and ask the Father what He thinks about the situation.

Popularity: 26% [?]

Just When You Thought You Heard Everything

Just got a call to ask if I will do nude weddings.

I don’t even know what to follow that with.

For the record:  I don’t.

Popularity: 30% [?]

The Toronto Outpouring - My Experience

I have told this story lots of times but have never set it to paper.

When I got saved, I really got saved. I was in my late 20s and had live a pretty wicked life. I had gotten out of the military a few years earlier and was in college. I went into a Charismatic church, got set free from the devil, and never looked back.

Within a year I was part of a rogue deliverance/healing ministry and saw all kinds of signs and wonders. We prayed for people all over the place and saw miracles in pizza places, hospitals, living rooms, and anywhere else you find people. I distinctly remember casting the devil out of a homeless man in the doorway to Winn Dixie before buying Swiss Cake Rolls to break a fast. (Oh the college years)

Within two years of getting free I was part of church plant team sent to south Florida. I was beginning to move in the prophetic in general and had a pretty keen word of knowledge. The church I helped plant was not a very healthy one but I was young in the Lord and I did not know any better. There was lots of judgment. I thought that was part of leadership. Maybe the leaders need to know the struggles of the people but this was something else. The church leadership I was a part of would gossip about people. If anyone left the church, all their dirty secrets would be laundered in an effort to discredit them and their criticism of the church.

Because of my critical spirit, almost all the prophetic words I got were filled with judgment. I spoke lots of words about repentance, sin issues, pride and rebellion.

As time went on our church became friendly with a man who lived in town who had spoken at Toronto. My pastor went there and got really blown away. Though he was not completely sold on what was going on, he knew God was in it somehow.

Several months later, Jeremy & Connie Sinnott, who were worship leaders at Toronto, were coming to a church in South Florida for what was billed as a worship conference. The congregation was odd to me but the presence of God was there and so I worshiped. On the second day of the conference, Jeremy and Connie were praying for some people so I was waiting for Jeremy (because I was a man and only men could minister to me). Eventually someone said to me that I should have Connie pray for me because she has a real anointing.

I went to her and she ministered to me what I now know to be the Father’s love. She spoke some words, laid hands on my chest, and I literally began to feel hot liquid flow into my heart. I could only cry. When she was done I could not even talk. I told someone that it felt like my heart was being circumcised. Strange indeed.

After that weekend a work of grace began to develop in my life. The hard prophesies began to be softened and I began to flow in a compassion I had never experienced before. When someone came to me for counsel, no longer was my first impression to find a reason to blame them for their problems. Before, no matter what you were going through I could always find a way to make it your fault. That was not the initial response after that.

So this love of God began to swell my heart but I had this problem. I had this word of knowledge that I seemingly could not control. I could look at people and see the sin in their lives. I only had to listen to someone for a minute before I could clearly see all their moral transgressions. This made it almost impossible to have meaningful relationships. All I could see was people’s sins. They would tell me they were fine but I knew better and I wanted to rebuke people so badly.

I now had this issue. I knew the love of God but I was getting all this dirt on people and I was in the leadership of a church that was constantly bringing accusation against everybody. There was no issue that could not be solved with a rebuke.

As an example. When my son was born he had a slight problem keeping down food that caused him to be hospitalized. It turned out to be minor but they had a hard time diagnosing it and he was quite ill. In the midst of this hard time I went to my pastor and told him that I was having a hard time and that I was being tempted with lust. While my son was dieing in the hospital he said to me,

“You know that this sin is the reason your son is in the hospital right?”

Blech! I have to spit that out every now and then. I cannot believe I thought that was godly counsel. (If that man is reading this please repent. If you go to his church, RUN!)

So I had this revelation of the love of God in conflict with what I was receiving and how I saw Him ministered. In the midst of this conflict, I took a pilgrimage to Toronto.

At first, I was really disappointed. The services were quite tame. The ushers did not let people remain in the isles during the preaching and most extravagant behavior was stopped. This was not the kennel I was told it would be.

There were lots of great sessions with great speakers but as I look back God did two things. The first was I got a revelation that I am exactly how God created me to be (this is a major post in itself so I won’t go into it). The second was almost as impactful as my time with the Sinnots.

In the middle of one session John Sanford said, “Just because you have access to the spirit realm does not mean you can go snooping around in everybody’s life. If they have not asked for your ministry, stay out of their business.” This is not a direct quote but pretty close. John then talked about how you can read people by staring at them long enough and how people today call that prophesy but it is not. It is soulish and does not glorify God. His wife Paula talked about walking into a room and picking up the burdens of every person in the room and that she had to learn to not allow that to happen. She had to reject that natural reaction.

This was revelation to me! Just as the ministry of the Sinnots revolutionized my relationship with God, this one little teaching revolutionized my ministry. After that time, when I would start getting accusations against a person I would have to tell myself that I am not going there.

God began to use me in genuine prophetic revelation. That is revelation minus the anger. Since the church could not bring accusation against me regarding my personality they began to tell me that I did not have a prophetic gift and that I was an evangelist so I should only bring prophetic words to the lost. And it just got goofier from there. Eventually the God I knew conflicted with the church I was attending and it was time to go (can you say deliverance?).

In the past few years I have had people tell me that I am one of the nicest people that they know. And I have people call me saying that I always have a word of encouragement. This is a miracle! I was genuinely changed by a few encounters. Now I have read books by lots of the people in this movement and have listened to lots of teaching series and watched lots of conferences online but these two moments were landmarks in my walk.

So when I hear people say that Toronto was a counterfeit move or that it was really the devil I quietly pray that the Lord forgives them. It really is a frightful thing to call the Holy Ghost a demon. Not an area that I would tread.

Were there things in Toronto that were off? Aren’t there in your church? Aren’t there in your ministry? Could you testify that every single person that has ever heard your teaching will respond in a biblically sound manor will produce good fruit? If your church sees a couple hundred people a year how many of them are fruitcakes that you could not help or would not be helped? Imagine if that number was a half million that came through. Give a little grace.

In the end, I know that God was in that place. They have since ended the nightly meetings and the crowds have disbanded but there are congregations all over the world that were birthed in a move of the Father’s love the same way I was.

update:  this post was in response to a post by Michael at Charismatica.

Popularity: 54% [?]

How our negative church experiences could help others…

As I have noted lots and lots of times before, I came out of a really bad church. Now I praise God because He taught me that it is not the role of the pastor to go mucking around in people’s lives for sport and that God can use a man with humility and hermeneutics.

That being said, there is a woman named Barb. I have no idea who she is but I found a survey she is doing about these wacked out churches.

Perhaps you wouldn’t mind helping Barb out with the research survey that she is doing. Barb writes…

“I could use your help with my personal research. I would like you to fill out my questionnaire.

This is the subject criteria that I am looking for: Believers who have had a negative church experience–primarily with authoritarian and controlling church leadership and who no longer are interested in those groups because they have had a disillusioning church experience with them. Believers, eventually, recognize and process their grief and move on from their initial harmful experience of disappointment and disillusionment. Where have you come from in the “process” and where are you at now? I am interested in “how” believers have processed and recovered from a devastating experience in a local church setting to a reasonable state or condition of spiritual harmony in their lives. How have you processed what has happened to you since your muddy tunnel experience? What has helped you go forward in Christ since that time?

The information given by those participating will be kept confidential. It will be used for my purposes of gathering and assessing information in order to compare it with the literature which I have been reading on related topics. If ever needed, I may ask for permission to quote someone.

Thank you for your interest and participation in my personal research. I appreciate the time and effort that it takes to further consider these issues in your own life. I realize that the issues and the questionnaire bring up old memories and maybe some painful experiences. I pray that your reflection on this topic will give you further insights into your own personal journey with Christ as well as confirm that this issue is, in fact, a problem in the church today and that it needs to be addressed.

Thank you for your courage and prayerful input.”

For any questions and completed questionairs please email Barb

Popularity: 27% [?]

Am I Religious?

Hear me out for a minute. I don’t fit in. The problem is, I don’t think I want to.

I did not grow up in church. I grew up heathen. I was lost in my sin and thought that God was ok with it. I knew that Jesus was the son of God who died for my sins on that cross. I knew that he rose from the dead. I knew that He was and is God. That seems to be enough these days, but it did not seem to be enough for God.

One day I encountered the living God. He absolutely invaded my life and knocked everything else off of the pedestal of my life. At that moment He became the pearl of great price Matthew 13:45-46 for which I traded everything else in my life for. That was it.

So I find myself today in a Christianity that seems to have had some other entryway than I went through and I wonder to myself if I missed something.

When I am around other Christians I would like to talk about Jesus. If I ever find myself in another men’s meeting that looked no different than any other business networking event I will simply go home and play with my children. At least I would have done something with eternal value.

I believe that we should sin less tomorrow than we did today; and that should not happen by chance. That should be a primary focus. Love God hate the devil. One or the other is not enough.

I was recently accused of being weak and offendable because I said that a new believer should not be allowed to invite his lost friends to get onstage with him to lead Sunday morning worship. I could not believe that this was debatable.  Is this the best the church has to offer? And if so, do I have to accept that?

Am I religious because when I go to a meeting of the called out ones I want people who have answered the call to be separate to lead the meeting? If someone is not close enough to Christ to realize that his lifestyle if filthy I don’t think they should be in a place of ministry. Does that make me a Pharisee? I don’t buy into the notion that all sins are the same. The thought that it doesn’t make a difference if we simply thought about a sin or are currently in it without repentance is total nonsense to me. I think Jesus was making the point that we should strive to be more holy because none are perfect. Not that holiness is futile. Does that make me a works-centered humanist?

I ask these questions but I do not know that I care about the answers. I am on fire for Jesus. I know that my sin is a reproach to Him. I am going to continue to tell other believers that their sin is the same. I want to be around others who will tell the same to me.

I have no desire to be in a church that sets the bar so low that any unconverted person feels at home. Church meetings are supposed to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. Not a place where convicted consciences are soothed with soft words of a false hope. From my perspective that’s what lots of people are advocating. And I simply do not want to go along with it.

Maranatha!

Popularity: 19% [?]

School of the Prophets

I have never prayed for a gift of prophecy. Not once. I have never been to a prophetic conference. I don’t read prophetic websites. Most national prophecies that I hear of just sound like fanciful thinking. (Is it ok that I wrote that? Does anybody think that is judgement?)

There was a time that I knew a man who had run a school of the prophets. They taught people to start prophetic words with certain words and end with other certain words. I went to a meeting where a class that had graduated would minister as part of a final internship. I got a funny feeling about the whole thing. I saw a twenty something year old boy begin a prophetic word to an elder in the church with,

“The Lord says, ‘Son …

I kind of got the willies. Later, I heard a lady give a prophetic word about some gobily gook, begin to walk away, then turn around and say,

“Oh yeah. Thus says the Lord”

Selah

It was about that time that I wrote off the entire prophetic training thing for good. Now I continued to allow the Holy Ghost to train me. Especially because the only thing that the leadership of my church wanted me to do was shut up. They had a new accusation against me every week and the answer was always the same. Shut down the prophetic gift. Undaunted, I went on with the Lord, stood as a witness against that ministry, and in the Lord’s timing moved on. Halleuijah!

Now I find myself in an awkward position. I have a small group of young boys and they are all beginning to operate in the gifts. I find myself discipling them on the difference between what is God, what is the flesh, and what is delusion. One night I was talking with a father of one of the boy’s and he said,

You are doing a mighty work in these boys. I had really been praying that he could be instructed in a school of the prophets.

Inwardly I said, “huh? Is that what I am doing?” I shrugged it off and went on. After church yesterday I had several people who waited around to talk with me seperately. They all had questions about the ministry of the prophetic in some way. Some want clarification on a word, and others want to know how to minister what they are getting. (the answer is almost always, “In love”) I shared some of the small amount of wisdom that I have. Each seemed to be blessed and strengthened in their situations while gaining insight as to what is motivating them to act the way they have.

I still do not endorse the idea of teaching someone to prophesy. Loren Sanford has a book titled Purifying the Prophetic: Breaking Free from the Spirit of Self-Fulfillment. I have read an excerpt and it is excellent. You can follow his postings in the forums at Openheaven.com where he is calling national prophets on the carpet for wrong words. This is vital.

The most important lesson is that the gifts are for the benefit of all. If you think your gift places you in some elite category, you are wrong. Be it prophecy or teaching. And if you are not open to having peer level accountability, please do not step out in ministry.

Popularity: 20% [?]

A Lesson from a Fallen Charasmatic

We all have issues, me especially.  So I am not one to thump other believers on the head.  But when a prominent leader falls into false doctrine we should all learn from what happened so that we can avoid the same fate.  Yes, there are plenty of biblical examples but we do not seem to learn from them.

This all brings me to Carlton Pearson.  I remember when I was engaged, I would lay on the floor and listen to a song of his on repeat that had a lyric that went,

Well if you don’t believe that I been redeemed
You know
(the angels in heaven done signed my name)
This is what I want you to do
Follow me down down down down down to the Jordan stream you know that
(the angel in heaven have signed my name)
Good God
I know I been changed
Do I have a witness in here tonite
That know you been changed
I know I’ve been changed
The angels in heaven done signed my name

If you don’t don’t don’t believe that I been redeemed
You know that the angels in heaven done signed my name
Don’t look at me funny
Follow me down to the Jordan stream
You know the angels in heaven done signed my name

The song spoke of the wonderful experience that happens when we go from children of darkness to children of light.  Mr. Pearson has had a change of heart recently and has swallowed some wacky theology.  Lots has already been written about it but I would like to point you to an article at Rich’s blogrodent.  Very lengthy article by him and an even more interesting exchange in the comment section by some who were in attendance in both the COGIC and Mr. Pearson’s church.

Popularity: 15% [?]

L. Ron Hubbards Wacky Worldview

The Rolling Stone (not a magazine that is quoted on this site very often) has a really long article about the scientology cult. Here are some excerpts.diah.jpg

Auditing is purchased in 12.5-hour blocks, known as “intensives.” Each intensive can cost anywhere from $750 for introductory sessions to between $8,000 and $9,000 for advanced sessions. When asked about money, church officials can become defensive. “Do you want to know the real answer? If we could offer everything for free, we would do it,” says Rinder. Another official offers, “We don’t have 2,000 years of acquired wealth to fall back on.” But Scientology isn’t alone, church leaders insist. Mormons, for example, expect members to tithe a tenth of their earnings.

My church teaches the tithe. But the truth is that many in the church don’t tithe and they still are pastored. That’s what pastors do. In any event the article tells about lots of the wackiness.

Among the wacky beliefs:

Scientologists must be “invited” to do OT III. Beforehand, they are put through an intensive auditing process to verify that they are ready. They sign a waiver promising never to reveal the secrets of OT III, nor to hold Scientology responsible for any trauma or damage one might endure at this stage of auditing. Finally, they are given a manila folder, which they must read in a private, locked room.

These materials, … assert that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic warlord named Xenu controlled seventy-six planets in this corner of the galaxy, each of which was severely overpopulated. To solve this problem, Xenu rounded up 13.5 trillion beings and then flew them to Earth, where they were dumped into volcanoes around the globe and vaporized with bombs. This scattered their radioactive souls, or thetans, until they were caught in electronic traps set up around the atmosphere and “implanted” with a number of false ideasincluding the concepts of God, Christ and organized religion. Scientologists later learn that many of these entities attached themselves to human beings, where they remain to this day, creating not just the root of all of our emotional and physical problems but the root of all problems of the modern world.

Yikes!!! Not hard to call this false teaching.

Time Magazine did an article on these folks a while ago and had to fight the cult in court for years afterward. Lets see how strong the Rolling Stone legal department is.

hattip: GetReligion Image from :Clambake

Popularity: 14% [?]

What I Learned in 2005 - The Scriptures

This is part of a series of posts detailing what I learned in 2005. They are going to come in no particular order.

This is a given for many of you that read this blog, but you would be amazed at how many people would call this religious. We all know that we are not to be lead by feelings or by emotions but instead by the Word of God. But how do you interpret that?

For years I was deceived into thinking that Bible preaching was not necessary if the Holy Ghost was present in a service. We would say, “God’s presence was so powerful that the preacher could not preach. It was Awesome.” What was so awesome? Was the preaching was so bad that when God intervened it was a mighty act of deliverance?

Some say that we only hear God though scripture. Others say that God speaks through scripture and circumstances, leadings and impressions, His spoken Word and His peaceful presence. I am of the second group.

To this point, if you are a regular reader of this blog you would probably be in agreement. But the question stands, do all of those have equal weight? And what prominence should each have in the public worship service?

According to Scripture all believers have equal access to God and are equal before Him because we are made in His image, and we are all under the authority of the Word of God. In 1 Thessalonians 5:21 believers are directed to measure all teachings against the Word of God. Acts 17:11 states that even the apostle Paul was under the authority of the Bible, and the Bereans were commended because they tested Paul’s teachings with the Scriptures. Leaders and laity alike are to live according to Scripture.

We all agree here right? But wait, there’s more. Some preachers preach endlessly on their own revelation without much to the scriptures. They get an impression or believe they get a word and they will spend the entire meeting talking about it. This is error of the worst kind.

What happens when we think our personal revelation is equal to scripture? Then we can preach our revelation instead of preaching the Word. Some say that the revelation is from Jesus and Jesus is the Word so if we preach our revelation it is the same as preaching the Word and to this I say repent for twisting the Word of God to exalt yourself.

To radical? I say not.

The only one who can preach my revelation is me. Anyone can preach the Word. Which of the two do you think Jesus is in? If your pastor claims that they are not called to preach and teach the Bible then you need to run to a Christian church! They are saying that their revelation is all that is needed. They are cutting you off from the life giving Savior and yoking you to themselves. Private interpretation is the first step of cult indoctrination.

It is the Gospel that Jesus has anointed to change lives. It is the Gospel that is to be preached to the ends of the earth. It is the Gospel that is to be proclaimed to every tribe and generation.

Popularity: 12% [?]

Cessationist Prayer

I went to a Benny Hinn conference one time. I was amazed at the hundreds of people that answered the altar call for salvation with tears running down their faces.
Later during worship I myself was in tears as I watched people feverously rejoyce as their family members got out of their weelchairs.

There is a thread going around asking who you would you have pray for you if you were in the hospital, Benny Hinn or a famous cessationist author? I have a new question. . . Whose ministry was more unpopular? Benny Hinn or John the Baptist?

BTW, If that cessationist pastor did come to your sickbed, who would he pray to for healing since his god can’t heal?

Popularity: 13% [?]

Fire In My Bones: Say What? Pardon My Glossolalia

Here is the latest article by Lee Grady.

By J. Lee Grady

Southern Baptists recently ruled that their missionaries can’t speak in tongues. I’m glad the vote doesn’t apply to me.

I was floored last week when I learned that trustees of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) International Mission Board voted to outlaw speaking in tongues on the mission field. In a 50-15 vote, these denominational bigwigs sat in a conference room in Alabama and decided that the SBC’s 5,122 missionaries are not allowed to have anything to do with glossolalia—a Christian form of prayer described in the New Testament that is practiced today by millions of charismatics and Pentecostals (and an untold number of Southern Baptists).

Continue reading ‘Fire In My Bones: Say What? Pardon My Glossolalia’

Popularity: 8% [?]