Archive for July, 2006

School of the Prophets

Published
by
carl
on July 31, 2006
in Christianity, Doctrine, Holy Spirit, Prophesy, The Goofy Church and holiness
. 10 Comments

I have never prayed for a gift of prophecy. Not once. I have never been to a prophetic conference. I don’t read prophetic websites. Most national prophecies that I hear of just sound like fanciful thinking. (Is it ok that I wrote that? Does anybody think that is judgement?)

There was a time that I knew a man who had run a school of the prophets. They taught people to start prophetic words with certain words and end with other certain words. I went to a meeting where a class that had graduated would minister as part of a final internship. I got a funny feeling about the whole thing. I saw a twenty something year old boy begin a prophetic word to an elder in the church with,

“The Lord says, ‘Son …

I kind of got the willies. Later, I heard a lady give a prophetic word about some gobily gook, begin to walk away, then turn around and say,

“Oh yeah. Thus says the Lord”

Selah

It was about that time that I wrote off the entire prophetic training thing for good. Now I continued to allow the Holy Ghost to train me. Especially because the only thing that the leadership of my church wanted me to do was shut up. They had a new accusation against me every week and the answer was always the same. Shut down the prophetic gift. Undaunted, I went on with the Lord, stood as a witness against that ministry, and in the Lord’s timing moved on. Halleuijah!

Now I find myself in an awkward position. I have a small group of young boys and they are all beginning to operate in the gifts. I find myself discipling them on the difference between what is God, what is the flesh, and what is delusion. One night I was talking with a father of one of the boy’s and he said,

You are doing a mighty work in these boys. I had really been praying that he could be instructed in a school of the prophets.

Inwardly I said, “huh? Is that what I am doing?” I shrugged it off and went on. After church yesterday I had several people who waited around to talk with me seperately. They all had questions about the ministry of the prophetic in some way. Some want clarification on a word, and others want to know how to minister what they are getting. (the answer is almost always, “In love”) I shared some of the small amount of wisdom that I have. Each seemed to be blessed and strengthened in their situations while gaining insight as to what is motivating them to act the way they have.

I still do not endorse the idea of teaching someone to prophesy. Loren Sanford has a book titled Purifying the Prophetic: Breaking Free from the Spirit of Self-Fulfillment. I have read an excerpt and it is excellent. You can follow his postings in the forums at Openheaven.com where he is calling national prophets on the carpet for wrong words. This is vital.

The most important lesson is that the gifts are for the benefit of all. If you think your gift places you in some elite category, you are wrong. Be it prophecy or teaching. And if you are not open to having peer level accountability, please do not step out in ministry.

Popularity: 20% [?]

Lord?

Published
by
carl
on July 26, 2006
in Christianity, Holy Spirit and prayer
. 40 Comments

Over the past several months I have heard God talk to me as soon as I wake up. I even blogged about one such occasion here. This happened again yesterday. I was really startled. It was one sentence and it was very matter of fact about a signifigant prayer request that I have had. As soon as I woke up I heard it.

I hear God lots but this is kind of new for me. Does this happen to anyone else? Any other odd ways of hearing God?

Popularity: 12% [?]

The Biblical Case For Tongues

Published
by
carl
on July 25, 2006
in Christianity, Doctrine, Holy Spirit and Tongues
. 1 Comment

Adrian posted this on his blog and I am quoting it in it’s entirety.
More importantly, if tongues were never intended biblically to be a prayer language and all the gifts were meant to stop, then I have a number of questions for my cessationist friends about what the Bible says about them:

  • Why does Mark 16 (even if it isn’t in the original autographs, but is instead an early addition to the text) say that those who believe will speak in new tongues; why is there no sense in these words that this experience is limited to the disciples?
  • Why, in Acts 2 when some heard the first outpouring of tongues did they say, “They are filled with new wine.” What was it about the disciples that made them seem drunk?
  • Why does the passage Peter then quotes speak of the Spirit being poured out on “all flesh” in the “last days” if we cannot experience this? Are we now living in the days after the last days? If the gifts were only to authenticate the Apostles, why the wide extent detailed here?
  • How do you explain it when Peter says at the end of his speech that the promise “is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself” He is clearly referring to the same thing that they had experienced that day? Peter says (to quote the KJV) “this is that,” and yet we are not allowed to experience “that” according to the cessationist and in direct contradiction to Peter’s universal promise.
  • What exactly is it about 1 Corinthians 13 that leads some to assume that the cessation of gifts is tied to the completion of Scripture rather than to the return of Christ?
  • Why does Paul clearly state in 1 Corinthians 4:5 that he wants them all to speak in tongues? Why, if tongues is only ever intended as a proof to the unbeliever would he want them all to do it? Why would he need them all to do it? At most, one or two would suffice to get the point across, and given the moral state of the church in Corinth, desiring still more people to speak in tongues seems almost irresponsible!
  • Why, on the one hand, are we at liberty to ignore Paul’s clear commands to the Corinthians to “eagerly desire spiritual gifts” and to “not forbid speaking in tongues” (1 Corinthians 14:39) when, on the other hand, we are expected to accept all of his other commands to local churches as applying to us today? If these two commands do not apply to us, which other of Paul’s commands also do not apply? How are we then meant to decide which of Paul’s commands we are going to obey and which we are going to ignore?
  • If tongues are always human languages and never unintelligible, what function did they serve in the churches and why would God use them to communicate a message to His people in some way? (1 Corinthians 14:5)
  • If tongues is not ever a private prayer language, why did Paul say, “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.” (1 Corinthians 14:18), and for that matter, why does he say, “The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself” (1 Corinthians 14:4)? What possible good would a tongue—meant solely for an unbeliever whose language is different to that of the speaker—provide for the one speaking in the tongue?
  • Why is it assumed when Paul condemns the disorderly speaking in tongues (which sounds like it was a competition for several different people to be heard at the same time) that his instruction prevents the congregation from, in an orderly manner, praying together at once, either in their own language or in tongues? If this is prevented by Paul’s instructions about tongues “in the church,” then we should also surely prohibit the whole church raising its voice to pray together, as is described in Acts 4:24 where “they lifted their voices together to God.” If nothing else, if tongues is a prayer language, and lifting your voices together to God is ok, then why not praying in tongues? The commands of Paul do not relate to praying to God, but rather to speaking to the church. In addition, Paul’s instructions relate to when unbelievers are present, so surely as a minimum is it not reasonable for the charismatic to apply them to the church’s prayer meeting?
  • If Romans 8:26 is not referring to praying in tongues, then to what exactly is it referring? “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.”
  • What exactly does 1 Corinthians 14:9 mean if it doesn’t mean what it appears to mean — “So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.” It sure sounds like something unintelligible to me!
  • Why does Paul speak specifically about praying in a tongue—“For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.” (1 Corinthians 14:4)—if tongues are only ever human languages for the purpose of unbelievers hearing a message?
  • Why does 1 Corinthians 14:26 make clear that tongues are one of the gifts for building up the church if they are only ever real languages for evangelism?
  • Why do so many cessationists actually argue for the exact opposite of what Jesus Himself says in Luke 11 (see the whole context). Jesus ends the parable by saying, “If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” The cessationist has to deal with the fact that millions of people today have asked God for an experience of the Holy Spirit, and that in direct contrast to what Jesus Himself said, by definition, if cessationism is true, they have not received the Spirit, but rather something else. Where they have asked for the bread of tongues, they have been given the stone of foolish gibberish. Where they have asked for the fish of prophecy, they have been given the serpent of hallucinatory delusions worthy of a madman. This cannot be right, in my humble opinion, as it makes Jesus Himself into a trickster. At the very least, God should have given us clearer directions in the Bible to manage our expectations and help us ALL to realise that cessationism is the biblical teaching. This issue has clear implications for the doctrine of the clarity of Scripture. If Jesus Himself appears to tantalise these people with an offer to give the Spirit to those who ask and really means something very different to the gift of the Spirit we see in Acts, then surely He would have told us!
  • Most importantly of all, if the Bible never intended that we get the impression that gifts are for today, why are there not any real “killer verses” to make it clear to us that this is not the case?

Popularity: 13% [?]

When God Stepped Down From Heaven

Published
by
carl
on July 25, 2006
in Christianity, Holy Spirit and Revival
. 3 Comments

This was emailed to me. Thought I would share it. It is about the Hebrides Islands Revival of 1949 to 1952.

When God Stepped Down From Heaven (pdf)

Popularity: 11% [?]

Weekly Link Dump

Published
by
carl
on July 24, 2006
in Weekly Delicious
. 0 Comments

Here is stuff that I found interesting. some of this is interesting for good reasons, others for not so good and yet more that is to be determined later. If you need something to look at, have a gander.

These are links that I found interesting. Just because I found it interesting does not mean I agree with it. I find the workings of cults interesting, but only so I can help their members come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. You know what I mean.

Since almost nobody reads this blog it may really not matter.

Popularity: 13% [?]

The Equation

Published
by
carl
on July 21, 2006
in Christianity, Doctrine, Holy Spirit and Prophesy
. 3 Comments

This is a post from a young guy who says that post modernism coupled with an entitlement mentality has corrupted the move of the Holy Ghost.  He details these things then follows up with:

You put that together with a generation that expects everything to be handed to them and what do you get? You get a movement of young people who have been told by culture that everything is okay. They’ve been told by church leadership that it is up to them to “usher in” the Second Coming of Jesus. They’ve been encouraged to do away with discernment concerning mystical experiences. They’ve been told that they are “forerunners” of Christ in the same way that John the Baptist was. They’ve been told that the orthodox views of Christianity are weak and it’s up to them to restore the “true” message of the Gospel, using their new “powers from God” to start a revival that will win souls for the Kingdom. When you put all that expectancy on a group of people, you know what you get? You get pride since you have the “raw Gospel” and everybody else isn’t as sincere as you. You get laziness, because the winning of souls will come when the annointing comes, so all you have to do is wait for that instead of actually witnessing. You get a group with dangerously little discernment and an equally dangerous reliance on a leadership construct centered on the questionable teachings of one man. Or worse, you get disillusionment because in reality, you’ve tried to sustain your spiritual existence by jumping for one experience to the next in hopes that something will stick.

Popularity: 10% [?]

Healing MP3s

Published
by
carl
on July 19, 2006
in Christianity, Healing and Holy Spirit
. 5 Comments

As you may know, I have been praying for a healing anointing. I believe this is in line with scripture 1 Cor 12:31 and has been birthed by the Holy Ghost. So here is the progress thus far. I was at my wife’s family reunion last week and there was a woman there who had on an elbow brace because she had sprained her elbow. I prayed that he would be healed. The next night she came up to me and said that she no longer needed to wear her brace because almost all of the pain had left her. Praise God!

On another note I have seen a remarkable increase of Words of Knowledge, though not in regards to healing. The last few times I have closed out worship I got many words of knowledge on what the Holy Ghost was doing in people. These were very specific regarding not only gifting but manifestations. An example was,

There is someone who was away from the Lord as recently as a month ago and right now the Holy Spirit is restoring you and your call. You can feel a burning sensation on your chest. Allow god to minister life to you.”

And sure enough someone came up to me and told me that it was him and that the word was spot on. So I am encouraged. But here is what I am requesting.

If you have any Randy Clark or Che Ahn sermon mp3s would you consider emailing them to me at revivalblog at gmail dot com. I specifically am looking for Randy Clark teaching impartation. If there are any others that have ministered to you along these same lines I would appreciate them also.

Thanks!

Popularity: 11% [?]

Weekly Link Dump

Published
by
carl
on July 17, 2006
in Weekly Delicious
. 0 Comments

Here is stuff that I found interesting. some of this is interesting for good reasons, others for not so good and yet more that is to be determined later. If you need something to look at, have a gander.

These are links that I found interesting. Just because I found it interesting does not mean I agree with it. I find the workings of cults interesting, but only so I can help their members come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. You know what I mean.

Since almost nobody reads this blog it may really not matter.

Popularity: 10% [?]

My Kind of YouTube Videos

Published
by
carl
on July 14, 2006
in Christianity, Holy Spirit and Revival
. 2 Comments

For those with nothing better to do:

couple more

The singing in this one is aweful but the anointing is so strong!

If you have any more, post them in the comments.

Popularity: 6% [?]

The Best of the Blogsphere

Published
by
carl
on July 14, 2006
in Christianity, Holy Spirit and Revival
. 0 Comments

When was the last time your charismatic church had a bible study with some members of the Catholic church down the street? When was the last time you saw people from a Southern Baptist church have a Bible study with people from a Vineyard church? If you troll religious minded blogs, you see it every day.

Many people do not recognize this but something is happening here in the blogsphere. Completely different groups are coming into contact. Yes there are lots of unchristian behavior, but there is some great dialog also.

I have been thinking about this for a while but two recent posts that I was involved with really highlighted this for me.

Chris Hamer-Hodges recently made a post about the apostolic which I weighed in on. Now, in the thread is a guy who seemed at least semi-cessationist. It was a nice little exchange and all were left with something to think about. For the cessationist crowd, maybe the apostolic functions are still happenings but none have the authority to write new scripture. For us charismatics, maybe the Holy Ghost is moving mightily in circles who do not use our terminology but see His manifestations none-the-less. Surely there are mighty men of God in cessationist thinking circles who are establishing ministries, raising up men in the faith and leading from afar. This is the apostolic.

Likewise, Laura recently made a post about the Emergent movement. She was reviewing a book by Dan Kimball. Almost everything I have read about the Emergent Movement has been less than thrilling but Laura challenged me to look into Dan’s stuff. To my surprise, it was really solid. Now, I have a church that I love so I would not have checked out an emergent church any time soon so outside of this exchange, who knows? But not only did Laura challenge my thinking, Dan Kimball checked into the conversation (or at least someone claiming to be Dan Kimball).

So despite all the fighting, there really are some positives to this blog stuff. At least for me.

Popularity: 5% [?]

The Coming Shaking; The Awakening

Published
by
carl
on July 11, 2006
in Christianity, Holy Spirit, Prophesy, Revival and visions
. 3 Comments

Take this for what it is. I have had some encounters lately and while I don’t normally post this stuff I feel lead to do so on this occasion.

I wrote this in my journal July Second:

I was in service this morning and we were singing some patriotic song when I got a vision:

There is going to be a fire that sweeps across the US churches. It is going to test and purify. It will bring fear to many and will cause some to fall away from the true faith.

I see the middle of the country in the natural very dry and the fire starting there spreading outward. This will be confirmed by a summer of fires that will cause great destruction.

The fire I saw in the vision roughly corresponds to the Albuquerque area if that matters to anyone.

Well, this morning I woke up and the Holy Ghost said:

“The coming shaking, the awakening.”

Then I had this old Stevie Wonder song stuck in my head. In it, the singer laments that his spouse is cheating on him and he was going to have to confront her even though it may be the end of the relationship.

But what I really feel my eyes wont let me hide
cause they always start to cry
cause this time could mean goodbye

Right after this, the fear of the Lord came upon me as I saw Him moving in churches purging the unfaithful. Still I cry Maranatha!

Popularity: 10% [?]

Weekly Link Dump

Published
by
carl
on July 10, 2006
in Weekly Delicious
. 3 Comments

Here is stuff that I found interesting. some of this is interesting for good reasons, others for not so good and yet more that is to be determined later. If you need something to look at, have a gander.

These are links that I found interesting. Just because I found it interesting does not mean I agree with it. I find the workings of cults interesting, but only so I can help their members come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. You know what I mean.

Since almost nobody reads this blog it may really not matter.

Popularity: 10% [?]